Nuke Aircraft Carrier Skipper with Captain Amy Bauernschmidt
On today’s episode of The Adrenaline Zone, Sandy and Sandra welcome Captain Amy Bauernschmidt, the first woman to ever serve as the Executive Officer and then as the Commanding Officer of a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier. Amy starts the conversation by taking us all the way back to her beginnings and telling us about her journey of becoming a naval aviator. During the time she spent at the Naval Academy, Amy got a chance to go through different types of training and see many aspects of the Navy. Since being a naval aviator allows you to explore a lot of possible pathways after squadron command, one of them being entering the pipeline to become a carrier CO, Amy decided to pursue this path and become the first woman to command an aircraft carrier.
Next, Amy talks about different leadership challenges, from commanding USS San Diego as preparation before switching to USS Abraham Lincoln to studying naval aviation and getting nuclear power training. She says these experiences were challenging, but extremely beneficial to her career. Then, she opens up about the major risks that can occur when commanding an aircraft, emphasizing the importance of mutual support and understanding in a navigation team. To put it in her words, ‘it is all on the Commanding Officer's shoulders, but you're never doing any of it alone’. Finally, Amy shares her experience of being a woman in the Navy and the first woman to command an aircraft carrier. She believes that the stakes have changed for women and that she is really optimistic about where the Navy is going with women.
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Transcript:
Dr. Sandra Magnus: It lies somewhere between the pit of your stomach, your racing heart, and your brain, somehow trying to keep it all together. It's an area we call The Adrenaline Zone.
I'm retired astronaut Dr. Sandra Magnus.
Sandy Winnefeld: And I'm retired Navy fighter pilot, Admiral Sandy Winnefeld. We're two adrenaline junkies who love spending time with people who are really passionate about pushing their boundaries as far as possible.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: The US Navy's nuclear-powered aircraft carriers and their embarked aircraft represent 90,000 tons and 4.5 acres of US sovereign territory, wherever they venture around the world. With 5,000 embarked personnel they're simultaneously a floating city and a busy airport.
Sandy Winnefeld: Operating one of these behemoths mostly involves three key tasks: safely running two large nuclear reactors, managing the incredible ballet of air operations, and safe navigation. All on the high seas.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: And while many on the ship are experts in one of these three vital disciplines, only one person has mastered all three: the captain.
Sandy Winnefeld: By law, the captain of a nuclear carrier has to be a nuclear-trained Naval aviator. In this week's episode, we interview Captain Amy Bauernschmidt, the first woman to command a carrier, the USS Abraham Lincoln.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Many thanks to our sponsor for this episode, Freedom Consulting Group. If you're looking for stimulating work in our National Security Intelligence Sector, check them out at: freedomconsultinggroup.com.
We caught up with Amy after a highly successful deployment aboard USS Lincoln, with her ship now in the shipyard.
Captain Amy Bauernschmidt, welcome to The Adrenaline Zone. We are so grateful that you're able to join us today.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Well, thank you very much for having me. It's an incredible honor to be here.
Sandy Winnefeld: Well, Amy, again, it's really neat to have you. First of all, congratulations on having this amazing job as a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier CO, and also on the heels of a very successful deployment to the Western Pacific and rim of the Pacific exercise and all of that. So, let's start all the way back at the beginning. How did you get interested in the Navy, and what was your path to becoming a Naval Aviator?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: You know, it was really quite by accident. As my mom might joke, in my one moment of maturity in high school, I knew that I was going to need to pay for most of my education. So I thought to myself, well, you should really try to find a major that you're interested in, that will allow you to get a good J-O-B to pay off all those loans you'll probably have. And so, I picked up a book one day in a bookstore, and it was where kind of in the same SAT/CAT section, which you could look up a major and then it told you a little bit about that major and then the schools that offered it. And I knew I loved the water, and I knew I loved Math and Sciences. So, I looked up everything that had an aquatic name to it. So, from Aqua and Marine and ocean, and the result of that was I found this major called Ocean Engineering. And when I found that major, there were only about seven or nine schools in all of the United States of America that had that as a major, and the Naval academy was one.
I go into my guidance counselor and I'm like, "Hey, you know, there's this Naval Academy place, what do you know?" And they basically said to me, “I don't know. I think there's a book back there”, which sort of intrigued me all the more, and a year-and-a-half or so later, I found myself at the Naval Academy Prep School in Newport, Rhode Island, good grades, but not perfect grades. And so, I did that for a year, which allowed me to get to the Naval Academy, and I had an absolutely amazing time.
So that's how I came upon the Navy. And then even at the Naval Academy, I don't think I truly appreciated what I was getting into when I got into it, and so, over the summers in between each year at the Naval Academy, we do a bunch of training and it allows us to get out and see all different kind of aspects of the Navy. And I was like, "They're going to teach me how to fly? That's awesome. I think I want to do that." And so, that's how I became a Naval Aviator.
Sandy Winnefeld: Wow.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: It's that whole voyage of, ‘I don't know what I don't know, but I know it, when I see it, that I like it.’
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Yep.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So, you actually deployed a number of times as an Operational Helicopter Pilot on the destroyer, John Young, who, by the way, famous astronaut, fellow Georgia Tech graduate. And you're also aboard carriers with over 3000 hours of flight time. So, in that context, what kind of missions did you perform?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: So, my aircraft does a couple of things; flew helicopters, started out in an aircraft called SH-60 Bravo, and then moved over to the MH-60 Romeo. And it's a helicopter that does what we call anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare. And then it just added a new Primary Mission Area a couple of years ago, and that's in the electronic warfare realm. So, we're going out and we're finding enemy surface ships or submarines, or just identifying other ships on the surface and making sure that that picture is sent back to the Admiral, that is oftentimes on the aircraft carrier so that they have a-- and all the other warfare commanders, they have a complete picture of what the battle space looks like that we're operating in.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: By the way, speaking of Navy women helicopter pilots, do you know Wendy Lawrence or Sunny Williams, two of my colleagues?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: I do. Wendy Lawrence was actually my Physics teacher when I was at the Naval Academy-
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Oh, my goodness. Okay.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: -and she also assisted with the women's crew team, and there were many a times that we went out on a run and I will not tell you how much faster she was than the rest of us. But we had our hands full keeping up with Wendy Lawrence.
Sandy Winnefeld: She's also the daughter of one of my father's Naval Academy classmates, and I spoke at the commissioning of the USS Lawrence a few years ago. And so, it's a small world, and I met Wendy when I was a Squadron CO. So remarkable and she is a pretty impressive girl.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Extremely impressive.
Sandy Winnefeld: So, in your helo flying, did you ever have a chance to pick up a wayward Naval Aviator who somehow ended up in the water, or was that a different aircraft doing those missions?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: That's a different aircraft. The aircraft is always capable of doing search and rescue. We do not have the enlisted aircrewmen in the back. We usually fly with one, two are typically required to do search and rescue. So that was a different squadron, different airframe. At this point, there are two helicopter squadrons on the aircraft carrier, which is probably only about the last 10, 12 years. And that is the other community, the HSC community, we're the HSM. So really, when we go out and we find those submarines, we can take care of them, or we can call in larger fixed-wing aircraft, the P-8 to come in, and help drop torpedoes. Or, we have actually called in F-18s and other aircraft to help take out any surface units.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So, do you have any hairy stories from any of those deployments that you can talk about?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: There's one that was kind of interesting. You know, I've been fortunate, knock-on-wood, that any aircraft emergencies I've had have been somewhat benign and fairly easy to handle in nature. But my very first deployment, it was one of our very first flights inside of the Persian Gulf. And, that's when I was still flying the old version of our aircraft, the SH-60 Bravo. And while we had an electronic measure system for electronic warfare, it was not as mature as it is today. And so, it was only as good as this library that you programmed into it. And our library was kind of general in nature. You know, it was my first deployment, first time in the Persian Gulf. So, they tell you about that, but I hadn't experienced any of it yet.
So, we're flying, and we were tracking some folks that were smuggling oil along the coast of Iran, and we were just outside of Iranian territorial waters at about 14 miles or so. And we're just kind of flying along, using our radars and other sensors to keep track of this ship. And our system picks up what it thinks is a fire-control radar. And now you're 14 miles from the coast of Iran, on my very first deployment, on my very first night flight-- it was probably midnight or one in the morning, your aircraft is picking up what you think is a fire-control radar, and my blood pressure definitely went up for a little bit there. So, we maneuvered, we got away, downloaded some files when we landed. Turns out that essentially, we had a very broad look at some sensors that were coming in. And if you had looked at it more narrowly, it actually wasn't a fire-control radar, but we didn't know that at the time. So, it was an interesting flight.
Sandy Winnefeld: I call that a ‘pucker factor’.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Yes. A high one.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: No kidding.
Sandy Winnefeld: So, you know, there are a lot of possible pathways for a Naval Aviator after squadron command, and entering the pipeline to become a Carrier CO is only one of them. Although I would say it's a very special pathway. Was being a Carrier CO something you always wanted to do, or was it something that you sort of got thrust upon you, or when did you figure out that you wanted to do it and could do it?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: So, I was already a Department Head and my first carrier experience was on my third tour in the Navy, which is something we call, a ‘disassociated sea tour’. And I was fortunate enough to work for two pretty incredible Admirals, as an Admiral's aide to the Admiral that's in charge of not only the aircraft carrier, but the rest of the carrier strike group. And it was really from there that I-- I'm not even sure I realized at that moment that it was truly an option, because my community was still deploying on destroyers and frigates and cruisers at the time. And it was really after that job where we kind of pivoted, and we really took the place of a different anti-submarine aircraft that had been on the aircraft carrier, the S-3. As it was going away, they were putting my new airframe on the aircraft carrier, which sort of opened up this new world to us.
And when I got out to Japan to do my department head tour, our new airframe wasn't quite there yet, but the old aircraft was still gone and it was another Admiral out there that looked around and went, "But I need an anti-submarine asset on this aircraft carrier. So, who am I going to use?" Saw our squadron, then said, "You guys come on over to the aircraft carrier." So, I was an Officer-in-Charge, which was still a normal path for our community, a Lieutenant Commander Department Head in charge of what I call a ‘super deck’ because it was about 60 people, which was almost double the size of a normal detachment on the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk; conventional aircraft carrier.
But that was truly the first time I really started considering what it would be like to go on that pathway. And eventually, when was selected and got through the pipeline, I ended up as the Executive Officer for about six or eight months of the very first person I had a conversation with about this pipeline, which was at the time Captain Ron Ravelo, a fellow helicopter pilot for that other community, who had picked up the carrier pipeline while we were in Japan together as he was leaving squadron command, and I was the Department Head, and then I became his executive officer years later.
Sandy Winnefeld: Wow. Small world. And I suppose that you spent some time on the bridge, you kind of snooped around the carrier a little bit while you were there, and you kind of picked up on what this whole big machine was all about.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: You know, it was kind of hard at the time. I'm the type of person, you know, you don't want to jinx yourself. I hadn't even picked up command yet, which was a huge milestone; command of a squadron, in the Navy. But one piece of advice I was given by some folks that had completed command was, "Hey, think about what comes after that." And I was like," Wow, gosh, I'm not even there yet." But I did think about it a little bit, and I looked at some of the options. And out of all of the choices, you know, and I didn't know how much I was going to be able to steer that, but I thought, "Hey, if it comes to fruition, I think this carrier route is the route that I think would be the most amazing to pursue."
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So, along the way then, the USS San Diego was your training wheels before getting to the command of the Abraham Lincoln. Talk a little bit about that. And what was your experience?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: So, when you're selected for this program, you're really selected for what we call, deep draft or major command. And that's what the USS San Diego was. It's an LPD amphibious ship, quite frankly, pretty darn, call it deep draft. And it doesn't have a very deep draft, but it is a large ship. So, it's about 800 feet long, has just a little over 400 sailors on it, and about 700 marines when they're embarked. It's a pretty darn big ship. I think it has a fairly small crew considering the size of ship that it is. It was phenomenal though. It was the first time I think, truly, after I got there, I logically understood that we would have a lot of Ensigns; the lowest officer in the Navy, on board the ship, but it was really the first time that I had led Ensigns. So brand new to the Navy, their first stop, their first set of qualifications, and you get quite a few of them. Your department heads are a lot junior than they are in squadron, or in other jobs that I'd had in the Navy, so it was a very different leadership challenge.
My ship at the time, if you'd asked anybody on the waterfront, it was an extremely successful ship. But like any organization kind of has a sinusoidal wave and has its ups and downs, we were kind of experiencing a little bit of a down, and we were trying to get ourselves back to a really good spot before they went on deployment. So, we had some really unique leadership challenges. Just from a ton of really young officers just trying to find their way in the Navy, it required a different level of patience than I'd had in some of my other jobs. And it's always fast-paced and hectic as you get ready to go on deployment. And I took them through the entire phase of the ship's life, from just coming out of about six months of maintenance, and then I departed just as they were leaving on deployment. So, it was a really rewarding, probably one of the tougher tours in my Naval career.
Sandy Winnefeld: I had a very similar experience because I commanded USS Cleveland, which is a much, much older LPD than San Diego. But it was one of the most fun tours I think I ever had because of the seamanship involved, and it was a really different kind of a challenge.
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Sandy Winnefeld: Let's roll a tape back a little bit, Amy. When you were selected for the nuclear power carrier pipeline, you had to do this little thing called Nuclear Power School, and also be the XO of a carrier. Talk to us a little bit about the initial process as they start grooming you for your deep draft in for carrier command.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Yeah. So, once you're selected, the first thing you do is, you get on a nuclear power training. And it's about six months of pretty intense sitting in a classroom, lots of tests and examinations, then you do about six months of really hands-on, a lot more tests. But it's a lot more hands-on learning. And then we go to Naval Reactor Headquarters for about four months and do the end of our book learning. I'm fortunate that I was-- I figured I headed off Alzheimer's for at least 10 or 15 years from that. Those rigors of studying-- I'm the person that's put in a lot of time there, and I needed to put in a lot of time there. While there were some that studied a little bit more than I did, there were quite a few folks that could study a little bit less than I did. So, I was a good upper-middle. So, for myself, for the six months I was there, I took one day off. Other than that, I was in studying each day. It's actually really interesting academics. It's kind of hard to appreciate all the academics, because you're doing it at such a pace. You try to not move from just test, to test, to test, but you end up moving from just test, to test, to test. Because you're doing at least one a week, if not two, and they're kind of long. Looking back on it, I enjoyed it.
There were quite a few nights though, early on, because you don't get even an equation sheet or anything. Everything has to be up your head. And by the time you've done all the homework problems they ask you to do, for the most part, you got all the equations in your head. But I remember many a nights waking up at two, three in the morning, reciting equations in my head, asking myself what the heck I did to myself. So, looking back on it, I'm glad I did it. There were quite a few moments when I was in it that I was wondering what the heck I did to myself, but it was also really Naval Aviation that taught me how to study. I think getting through high school and the Naval Academy, I did more by brute strength, than the fact that I was actually decent academically.
And it was really going through becoming a pilot that taught me how to study, what it meant to really learn information and then be able to act on it and use it, whether it was emergency procedures in the aircraft, or just aircraft knowledge to apply to a problem that you had in the aircraft. And so, I was actually very thankful to Naval Aviation that by the time I got to Nuclear Power School, I knew better how to study, and how to prepare myself. If I had tried to do something like nuclear-- first off, they wouldn't have accepted me right out of the academy, but if they had, I probably wouldn't have done very well. Because at the time, I didn't really know what it meant to study. I would often, open up a textbook or something. I'd read something or do a problem, but had I tried to close that textbook, set it aside, and then regurgitate what I had just learned, I wouldn't have been very successful at it. And that came through studying in the aviation pipeline.
Sandy Winnefeld: You know, I went into every single test at Nuclear Power School thinking I was going to fail. And it was one of those life experiences that show you that you're much more capable than you think you are of doing things. And it was just tremendously valuable.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: You know, it's funny. While I was on the space station, I coined this phrase called ‘type two fun’, which was, it wasn't fun while you were having it, but when you look back on it, it was actually pretty fun. This sounds like type two fun.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: I don't know if I would give it quite that much credit, but I see where you're going with that.
Sandy Winnefeld: It's a good place to be from, but not a good place to be.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: True statement.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Now that you know you're commanding the carrier, and so operationally, you know, we start to talk about risk. There's a lot going on just in the flight deck. And so, can you talk a little bit about how that works and then how you manage the risks? Because again, you've got all these young people on the decks, and it's a very busy place, and the environment is also very challenging. So, let's talk about that a little bit.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Sure. Yeah. So, the average age on our carrier right now is about 21.8 years old, which is actually up about a year or so from a while back. A few people joining a little bit later, but still very, very young. And when you think about, you know, a couple of hundred young folks up on the flight deck-- one important thing to remember is that the Navy never hires into middle management. We all start at the beginning. Whether it's Officer Enlisted, you're still at the beginning, and then you learn as you come up in the organization.
For the folks in the flight deck, you don't start out as what we call an aircraft handler; a yellow shirt, being one of the primary people taxiing around a billion-dollar aircraft five feet from the edge of the ship that, it goes over, you're having a bad day. You start out kind of observing. You start out with just handling what we call, chocks and chains that go on to the aircraft to keep it from moving, and you gradually work up. So, in that process, what starts at bootcamp, then any schooling between bootcamp and your first ship, and then on your first ship, you are slowly learning. And it's the folks above you that understand the expectations and the standards that ensure that as you grow up, and you get higher and higher qualifications, that you are getting done exactly what needs to be done for, frankly, in one of the most dangerous places in the world, which is the flight deck of an aircraft carrier.
But it's also amazing. I mean, watching these young sailors, they have no quit in them, and I just get goosebumps thinking about it. You know, as soon as an aircraft launches and they're getting ready for the next one, they have to move around and get a couple things done, and they could easily just walk and none of them do it. They're always kind of jogging, going from spot to spot, and they do just an incredible job. So, they're incredibly impressive.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So, one of the singular advantages, you know, going back to the nuclear propulsion and the nuclear school that’s one of the things that we have an advantage at the US. Of course, France has them as well. And it sounds like it's an amazing culture. And it's been something that the Navy has been doing for over 70 years on the oceans. And so, how do you manage the risks there? Clearly, it's been done well. And you've learned a lot, I suppose, in nuclear school about it, but that's operationally a whole of another arena.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Yeah. So, at the exact opposite of that flight deck, the opposite end of the ship, are these two nuclear reactors with, again, another couple of hundred professionals that are incredibly highly trained, that understand the expectations and the standards again. And we come from this amazing culture started with Admiral Rickover, both on the flight deck and across the ship, and the reactor as well. We really get after the small problems so they don't become big things. We don't tolerate a lot of what most people would consider, I don't want to say small mistakes, but kind of minor deviations from the standard-- is we make sure that each and every person, as much as possible, each and every moment of the day is maintaining the standard so that we don't allow those little things to grow into bigger issues that could be catastrophic, either for personnel or for equipment.
Sandy Winnefeld: So, one of the things that I often tell people about Carrier COs is that there are sort of three big things you have to do on a carrier. You have to, obviously, run a nuclear propulsion plant safely and effectively, you have to operate this incredibly complicated air operations system, and you also have to navigate successfully on the high seas. And one of the things I tell people is, there are people on the ship who are very good at one of those things, but there's only one person on the ship who has mastered all three. So, talk to us about how you mastered the piece about navigating on the surface of the ocean. Because you're doing underway replenishments, you're going in and out of port, you're anchoring, you're avoiding traffic while you're doing flood operations. How does that work for you? And how did you get good at it?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Well, mastering all three might be a little bit overstating it. But you do have to be, you know, decent at all three things. One of the toughest things to teach young officers that are starting out on the bridge is relative motion, and what it looks like as you're maneuvering. And it's something that, as an aviator, I think you learn pretty quickly and you're kind of forced into it as you start doing formation flying when you're young. And so, once you learn it, it is as applicable across platforms. So, once you kind of learn relative motion, you kind of have an understanding, you know, if I make this maneuver, what the other aspect of the ship will look like, if you're trying to get into position with another ship, how tight to make the turn, when to start the turn, when to stop the turn. And so, I think if I would take any one of my young Surface Warfare Officers and put them in an aircraft, they'd probably pick it up much faster than I did when I first started flying formation flights in an aircraft and vice versa. So, I think that piece, once you learn either, flying or ship driving, one aspect of it you can pick up a little easier when you go to the next one.
There have been plenty of port visits that I think aged me quite a few years, because aircraft carriers don't fit very well in every place that we go. I do have a great team of professionals, though. So yes, it is all on the Commanding Officer's shoulders, but you're never doing any of it alone. And I do have an incredible navigation team, an incredible reactor team, and an incredible air department team. And so, I think understanding, as well, people and their strengths and having that open environment where that they can ask questions, or have a questioning attitude about something that you're doing is also important because no one person can get everything done on that ship that needs to get done. And so, I am fortunate there's an incredible team there of professionals that assists each and every day.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: You know, in aviation, we use simulations; flight simulators, and things like that, to get a feel for some of these dynamics. Do you have the same system for the ship navigators and operators?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: We do. And it's actually gotten a lot more robust in the last couple of years. And so, for the aircraft carrier, end up qualifying in the same manner that the Surface Warfare Officers do before they command. So, before I was allowed to take command of the USS San Diego, I had to pass all of the same qualifications that a Surface Warfare Officer had to pass for their community. And that included a written exam and a ship driving simulator, and a kind of a tactical simulator. And so, in preparation for that, we did some ship handling, you're pulling in and out of port, you're driving in heavily-congested waterways, oftentimes different straits around the world that are transitted by thousands of ships a day. And so, you practice all of that operating within the rules of the road that ship handlers use. And so, there are various different levels that give you everything from kind of a more rudimentary, just practicing the stick and rudder version of shipped handling all the way up to 360 degrees simulators.
One of the things that I actually found quite helpful as I was moving into the Amphib for the first time and then back to the carriers, we would do what was called a slalom course. And they'd put ships in the line, and you would literally try to drive the ship around almost like you were a slalom course. The goal of course, was to do it as quick as possible, but safely. And if you wanted to do it fast, you were trying to anticipate the turns and keep it tighter around the ships, whilst making these big sweeping turns that would take both more time - using that much rudder slows down the ship. And it was actually a great way to kind of reorient yourself back to the class of ship that you were driving. And we often use it. I'll do it with my junior officers, and we'll time each one of them and see who wins.
Sandy Winnefeld: So, it's not like skiing though, where you get to elbow aside the pylon. You have to completely miss the pylon here.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: You have to completely miss the pylon.
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Dr. Sandra Magnus: Well, shifting gears a little bit, we talked about some of the technical operational issues, but you're also the Mayor of a 5,000-person city. So, there's human dynamics. So, in addition to all of the technical and operational balls, there's the managing people part. What's the hardest part of that job?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: It's also the most exciting part, but I think leadership is hard because it is people. And not everyone is motivated by the same thing, not everyone responds in the same way. And when you're talking about 5,000 people, it's a lot of people to try to move in a direction. I'm blessed that I have a wonderful Executive Officer, number two in charge of the carrier. And when it comes to a lot of the simple things, the day-in and day-out running of the city really rely on not only my Executive Officer but my Most Senior Enlisted, my Command Master Chief. I have 20 department heads on board the ship. I really work with that group of 22 people to make sure that they understand where we need to be going, and on a day-in and day-out basis, they're doing a pretty good share of the running of the city.
And then, conversely, I spend some of my time with my peers; fellow Warfare Commanders, the person in charge of the airway, the person in charge of all of our escort destroyers and the Information Warfare Commander. And we're really trying to help provide our feedback to the Admiral that is embarked about the tactical operation of the entire strike group. So, we each have our own piece and we work together to make sure that we are providing sound options on how to also employ this entire carrier strike group that we call it, tactically, when we're overseas.
So, while I'm absolutely monitoring what's happening in the city, I rely on really those 22 people each and every day to take care of that. And that's everything from the Starbucks we have, and the ship store, and haircuts, and laundry, and chapels, and libraries, to also being able to fix not only the aircraft, but the ship. And so, I think this last deployment we repaired and put back into service over 19 aircraft engines, had to completely rebuild several small generators, and we have to be able to do all of that plus load up the ordinance that's required to conduct our mission.
Sandy Winnefeld: So, with all the Air Operations, Nuclear Power, navigating on the high seas, Mayor of a 5,000-person town, supporting a strike group commander and your fellow warfare commanders, do you ever get any sleep while you're underway? How do you manage the stress and the fatigue that kind of come along with that amazing job you've got?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: You've kind of grown up doing this. So, since we don't hire into the middle anywhere, so you really have seen, maybe not the inner workings of how a person tackles this, but especially as Executive Officer, you get a pretty good glimpse on how to support the Commanding Officer pretty well. And so, again, I'm blessed to have an incredible team that does a lot of the lion share of the work, which allows me to get a little bit of sleep. And then the good and the bad news sometimes is, when you deploy in more of the winter months, which we did, depending on the mission, there were times where we flew very late into the night, but there's also times where we were able to cut off flight operations in order to get a little bit of that sleep.
And then there are just some days where you're just tired, and I know not to schedule certain meetings on those days when I'm really tired. And I know kind of how to help manage my schedule. I'm also blessed to have a couple of people that can sit up on the bridge for me. I'm normally up there during almost all flight operations and other, what we call high-risk evolutions. I can tap my Navigator, or my Executive Officer, or my Operations Officer, on the shoulder and say, "Hey, can you take it for an hour or two? I need to go grab a nap."
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Shifting gears just a little bit, the submarine force just named its first female Chief of the Boat on a nuclear sub. And I've had conversations with Wendy about some of her experiences, and I know that Naval Aviation is committed to having no glass ceiling for women and minorities when it comes to command, and you're the first woman to command a carrier. But it's been a while, you know, it's been 18 years since you graduated from the Naval Academy. So, would you care to talk about some of the obstacles that you faced and how you see the environment has changed over the last 20 years or so? Or has it? I guess.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: I definitely think it has. When I graduated in 1994, just before I graduated is when the National Defense Authorization Act lifted most of the exclusions for women in combat for us in the Navy. And so, it was really the women that were currently in Flight School as I was getting ready to graduate that were the first ones that really had the option to go into combat aircraft. So when I got to my first squadron, there were only two other women in the squadron. And I probably should have put two and two together, but I didn't realize that they were the most senior two women in my entire community, but they were there. And so, I got to my first ship, the destroyer, there were women on board the ship. I had two roommates, my Combat Systems Officer, and the Damage Control Assistant.
And so, I don't think I appreciated exactly where we were in time and space because everywhere I went as a brand-new officer, I had women to the left of me and to the right of me. And then some of those women that graduated a couple of years prior to me but were still in Flight School, they either selected combat aircraft, or there were one or two that switched into combat aircraft. I crossed paths with most of my career, which included; when I was Commanding Officer of a squadron and it was the first female Commanding Officer in our community, I also had Admiral Wendy Lawrence, who was the first female Strike Group Commander.
And so, I've been just really lucky, both in the community that I grew up in, just amazing male mentors, absolutely incredible male mentors that truly-- we were kind of an interesting community when we first started out is, we weren't carrier-based, initially. And so, we weren't kind of in the same tail hook group. But we also weren't like some of our large fixed-wing aircraft that completely stayed deployed on land and just could fly from location to locations. So, we were in this kind of weird tweener group.
And I think because of that community, what we really relied on each other in order to get the job done. And nobody really cared who you were, we just needed to get the job done. Because we were a little bit of a community on our own island. And so, the only way we got into the places we needed and got the mission done was if we relied on each other. And so, I think that really started it with a bunch of incredible male mentors, always having women around me, so, it was normal for both them as men, but also myself. And then having incredible women around me my entire career.
Sandy Winnefeld: Just as a minor point, you said Wendy Lawrence was your Strike Group Commander. I think it was actually Nora Tyson-
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Nora Tyson. You're right. Sorry about that.
Sandy Winnefeld: - I think the world of Nora, helped her along, you know, because she was not a Carrier Aviator and became a Strike Group Commander, and ended up commanding the Third Fleet. I think the world of her. So, I'm glad you got a chance to be exposed to her.
Any other women-- I know it's been a good week for the Navy. Lisa Franchetti just took over as the Vice Chief of Naval Operations. And, Sandra mentioned the first female Chief of the Boat. So, are you optimistic about the trajectory the Navy is on, in that regard?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Absolutely. So, at the same time, that is my baddy. You had Wendy Lawrence on my head from earlier. So, at the same time, we had Nora Tyson on the strike group. Admiral Klein was the ESG commander that was out operating overseas when I was there on the carrier on the George H. W. Bush with Admiral Tyson. So, Admiral Klein has always been an incredible mentor. I needed to reach out to Admiral Joyner, also an incredible mentor. She was the first female carrier Air Wing Commander in charge of eight squadrons, aircraft squadrons that deploy in the carrier. And then I had to cold email Valerie Overstreet. So, Sara Joyner was the first female Commanding Officer of a squadron on an aircraft carrier followed by Valerie Overstreet, followed by me. I had a couple of questions. One day I had to completely cold email Valerie Overstreet and said, "Hey, could you just help me with this?" And she couldn't have been more incredible. So, I am blessed that I am able to stay in touch with Admiral Tyson, Admiral Klein, Valerie Overstreet, and Admiral Joyner, just a great group of people.
Sandy Winnefeld: It's a small world, because Val Overstreet is the daughter of a guy named Gil Rud, who was a former Blue Angel and was the XO of an A-7 squadron when I was a baby in the F-14 community. And I really, really respected him, considered him a role model, my whole career. And then having to get the opportunity to work with Val later on was a real privilege for me. So, you've been around some pretty cool people.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Yeah. I have been around some really awesome people and then, we just selected last year, so about 10 months ago, our second female Air Wing Commander coming up, and she's an incredible human, she's just an incredible officer, and then, we’re close. For some reason, I thought we'd picked up a female XO for the submarine force, but COs in the next year or two, just kind of took that time again to get through the program from when they were able to start on submarines. And so, I'm very optimistic. We're still not there yet, but the numbers get bigger each year and people are doing incredible work.
The Navy keeps trying to improve, they've developed several programs including; essentially like an offramp or a sabbatical kind of program that I admit, I was kind of skeptical of when we first started it. It's probably been going about 10 years now, but it's helped both men and women. But it also kind of helps with-- Valerie Overstreet did it, and a couple of other incredible officers, and we're able to come back between a year and three years off, which sometimes help with family planning, which can be one of the bigger challenges that you have deploying in the military. But yes, I'm very optimistic about where the Navy is going with women.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: You know, after listening to everything that you've been talking about, I'm intrigued by your job. It sounds fun and challenging.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: It is. It's an amazing job. The sailors are incredible and I get up and go to work every day because all those sailors are-- anyone that ever says," I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know about this generation." I say, "Come to my ship. You will see the next generation and you will have absolutely no concerns whatsoever about where this country is going, because they're incredibly amazing human beings."
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yeah. I work with students a lot and have the same thoughts.
Sandy Winnefeld: So, Amy, one of the great things about the nuclear carrier pipeline for an aviator, as hard as it is, is that you spend hardly any time in Washington DC. I think I did my entire time as a captain, not in Washington DC, except for the very, very end. And it's hard sometimes being at sea, but it's a lot of fun. So, how much longer are you going to have command of Lincoln? Is there a horizon there, and any idea what's going to come after that, that you can share?
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: I personally have absolutely no clue. As you probably remember from your time, you don't have a whole lot of control over your life. I hope to be there for at least another year, maybe up to a year-and-a-half, somewhere in that window. So, another 12 to 18 months. And then, one of the tough things about this pipeline, the Navy is working on that too, but because it's such a long pipeline, every pay grade we have what we call higher tenure, and you can only stick around for a certain amount of time per pay grade. And almost all carrier COs start getting really close to that higher tenure. And so, it's really going to be up to-- no, we'll find out. I am optimistic, but we'll find out.
Sandy Winnefeld: Somebody will call you soon, I'm sure. It happened to me. It's just like, "Hey, I need you to come back and be my Executive Assistant." And I went, "My gosh, I'm going to be going from being this wonderful job, commanding this beautiful ship with 5,000 sailors, to going and being somebody's Executive Assistant." But that's okay, bigger and better things will come along.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: I'm just going to enjoy every moment on the ship while I’ve got it. And that's really all I think about is taking care of those sailors.
Sandy Winnefeld: Good for you. I love it. Good. Well, look, this has just been a delightful discussion and it took me down memory lane. It's really cool to be able to talk to any carrier's CO, much less the first woman to have the opportunity to do that. I'm very proud of you and very excited for what you've done, and what you're going to do in the future. So, thanks so much for joining us today.
Capt. Amy Bauernschmidt: Absolutely. Well, thank you both for having me. It's kind of intimidating to come on a show that has such impressive resumes as your hosts. But thank you very much for having me.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: That was Captain Amy Bauernschmidt, the first woman to command a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. I'm Sandra Magnus.
Sandy Winnefeld: And I'm Sandy Winnefeld.
Thanks again to Freedom Consulting Group for sponsoring this episode. Do work that matters. Check them out at: freedomconsultinggroup.com.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: And check us out on social media, including a short video of our interview with Amy on TikTok. Our handle is very simple: @theadrenalinezone.
Sandy Winnefeld: And that wraps up season two of The Adrenaline Zone. We'll see you soon with a whole new set of risk-taking guests and some new ideas for the podcast.
