The 80,000 Lbs. Backbone of the American Economy with Joshua Hogue
In the latest episode of The Adrenaline Zone, hosts Sandy Winnefeld and Dr. Sandra Magnus step out of the cockpit and into the cab of a Class 8 semi-truck. Their guest, Joshua Hogue - a seasoned professional driver for Hogan - gives listeners a raw, high-stakes look at the industry that keeps America moving.
From navigating 10,000-foot Colorado mountain passes in the snow to the psychological toll of three-week stints on the road, Joshua reveals that trucking is far more than just "sightseeing for a living."
The Backbone of the Economy
It is a staggering statistic: roughly 70% to 75% of all freight in the United States is moved by truck. As the industry saying goes, "If you bought it, a truck brought it."
Joshua highlights that the modern trucking professional is a logistics expert, a mechanic, and a risk manager rolled into one. Whether hauling dry van freight, refrigerated produce, or livestock, every load requires a different set of physics and a unique approach to safety.
High-Tech Rigs: More Than Just a Steering Wheel
Forget the image of the gritty, analog trucks of the 1970s. Today’s tractors are high-tech marvels. Joshua describes his "Super Sleeper" as a home on wheels, complete with double bunks, refrigerators, microwaves, and even massaging seats to manage the physical toll of 11-hour driving days.
The technology isn’t just for comfort; it’s for survival. Modern trucks feature:
Automatic Braking Systems: Sensors that detect when the vehicle in front is too close.
Lane Departure Warnings: Audio cues that signal when the truck is drifting.
ELD (Electronic Logging Devices): Systems that monitor engine health and ensure drivers strictly adhere to federal safety hours.
The Greatest Hazard: "Four-Wheelers"
When asked about the biggest risk on the road, Joshua’s answer was immediate: the passenger car.
Sitting high above the traffic, Joshua has seen it all - drivers reading books, texting, and even eating bowls of cereal while steering with their knees. He emphasizes a few critical rules for those sharing the road with 80,000-pound rigs:
Respect the Blind Spots: "If you can’t see my mirrors, I can’t see you."
The Stopping Gap: A semi-truck requires significantly more space to stop than a car. Cutting off a truck to make an exit isn't just annoying; it’s potentially fatal.
Tailgating: Drafting might save a car a few cents on gas, but it places the driver in a "kill zone" if the truck has to slam on its brakes.
The Professional Ethic and Personal Sacrifice
Trucking is a lifestyle of solitude and sacrifice. Joshua often spends three weeks at a time on the road, missing birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays to ensure store shelves stay stocked.
Despite the long hours, there is a deep "trucker ethic" on the road. Whether it’s helping a rookie chain up tires in a California snowstorm or guiding a fellow driver into a tight parking spot at a midnight truck stop, the community relies on mutual support to manage the daily risks of the job.
Looking Ahead: Automation
While the buzz around self-driving trucks like the Tesla Semi continues to grow, Joshua remains skeptical that humans will be replaced anytime soon. Between unpredictable car drivers and the complex "tactical miles" of city delivery, the judgment of a professional driver is still the ultimate safety feature.
Want to hear the full story?Listen to the full episode of The Adrenaline Zone to hear Joshua’s advice for aspiring drivers, his favorite coastal routes, and why he thinks every car driver should spend a day in the cab of a semi.
Transcript
Joshua Hogue:
I’ve seen people in cars reading books, playing on their phone, or eating a bowl of cereal with no hand on the steering wheel. You see all kinds of crazy things because we sit up so much higher than you, so we see everything.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Logistics are a critical element of our country’s infrastructure. In the neighborhood of 75% of our nation’s goods get transported cross country by truck. And when you consider local deliveries, everything you buy has probably been touched in some way by the trucking industry, roughly.
Joshua Hogue:
I would say 99.9% of the freight. Because even if it’s shipped on rail, on a train, it still has to be loaded into a truck and taken to a warehouse.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
And this traffic rides on the American highway system where there are two types of people: truckers and everyone else.
Joshua Hogue:
Mainly, it’s cars that are our main risk.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
The real deal is always a bit different. Trucking is no exception. We’ve always wanted to have a trucker as a guest in order to explore what that life is like and what the risks are out there on the road.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Now, I’m lucky enough to be on the board of Enterprise Mobility. They just bought Hogan Trucking, one of the nation’s leading trucking companies.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Perhaps you’ve seen them out there with their bright blue caps.
Sandy Winnefeld:
And we were able to score a really fun interview with driver Joshua Hogue.
Joshua Hogue:
Something that people don’t really understand about the trucker is the dedication that we put into making sure you get the goods that you want to buy. We’re out here missing birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays, spending time away from family just so the freight gets to where it needs to be.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
But first, many thanks to our sponsor for this episode, Culligan. Culligan’s drinking water systems deliver the superior filtration and refreshing hydration you need to fuel your high performance lifestyle. Culligan: Water you love.
Sandy Winnefeld:
We caught up with Josh in between runs and during a rare two week vacation. So, Joshua, welcome to The Adrenaline Zone. We’ve always wanted to have a trucker on the show. We’re really grateful for you to spend some time over the holidays with us. So we’ve got a ton of questions for you, and we like to start by asking our guests kind of what led them into their profession in the first place. How did you get into the trucking business?
Joshua Hogue:
I got into it when I was a little boy. My grandpa actually drove for about 40 or 50 years, so I used to ride along with him when I was a little kid. I always said I was going to do it when I grew up.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
What attracted you to it? The love of the open road?
Joshua Hogue:
Just being out there, being able to see things, and pretty much getting paid to sightsee from that.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
From that moment when you were a little boy, I guess your grandpa was able to give you information on how you got into training and how the career progression works. But can you explain that to us? Once you decide you’re going to be a professional driver, how do you get the training, and then what is the career progression as you go through, or how does that work?
Joshua Hogue:
Well, what I did when I started back in 2007 was I went to an accredited school. It was pretty much a three week to four week class where they teach you for 12 to 14 hours a day. You practice, and they teach you the beginning level of doing a pre-trip inspection, your driving, and your backing skills. You sat there and practiced and practiced.
And then they get you your permit. And then after you go on the road and all that, they take you to an actual CDL test site, a DMV test site that gets you your driver's license. And then after that, I signed on with Hogan. They actually did, I signed a 14 month contract with them. They paid for my schooling. I couldn't even remember how much of the percentage of it was, but I signed 14 months with them.
Sandy Winnefeld:
It sounds really intense, 14 hours a day for four or six weeks or something like that. And I’ve got a healthy respect for truckers. I learned that when I learned how to back a boat trailer. It’s like, okay, this is not as easy as it sounds.
Joshua Hogue:
No, but the funny thing is the longer the trailer, the easier it is to actually turn it.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Oh really? Because you’ve got more of a moment arm or something?
Joshua Hogue:
Yeah, the shorter the wheelbase, the faster the trailer will actually pivot and turn.
Sandy Winnefeld:
That’s interesting. So let’s talk about the truck. Can you give our listeners a feel for the difference between the higher end classes of trucks, you know, Class 7, Class 8, that kind of thing? And your horsepower, weight, and the fuel it carries? All the kinds of things that go into what makes a big truck a truck.
Joshua Hogue:
Well, you’ve got your Kenworth and you’ve got your Peterbilt, which those are your high end trucks. Everybody wants to be in one of those. But they range from anywhere from 400 to you can go up to 1,000 horsepower or more. It just all depends on what you want to do to it and how hard you want to run it.
But more commonly it is fleet trucks which run right around 400 to 500 horsepower. I mean, the normal truck companies run Freightliners or Internationals or Macks, so they’re more middle or beginner level kind of trucks. And then you’ve got your super sleepers which have everything in them that an RV has.
Sandy Winnefeld:
So speaking of RVs, Sandra just went around an amazing country in a small RV, so she’s probably got a good feel for what you all are up to in that regard. But so I guess this is the Class 8, that’s the sleepers and different horsepowers. Do you have to get a separate qualification for a different brand of truck? Do you have to get special training for like a Freightliner as opposed to a Mack truck or something like that?
Joshua Hogue:
What it is, is you get what’s called a Class A CDL, which that will allow you to drive a semi truck, a Class 8 truck, and a 53 foot trailer or 28 foot depending on what your company wants you to haul. But their box trucks will take what they call that Class B license, which is for a smaller weight. Class A is for 80,000 pounds or more.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Wow. Twice the size of an F-14.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Does the level of technology in the truck or the controls vary by class? You know how autonomous things are these days. Do you have automatic shifts, manual shifts, or navigation? I bet the cockpit’s pretty sophisticated. Does it matter on the class?
Joshua Hogue:
It doesn’t matter on the class. It just depends on the truck and how much money you want to put into a base truck versus a higher end truck. They’ve got pretty much all the same features. It’s just: do you want more cabin space for the sleeper area, or do you want more luxury?
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Can you custom order them?
Joshua Hogue:
You kind of custom order them with your chrome packages and stuff like that, or your seats. But that’s not for efficiency, it is how to upgrade it with chrome and make it look pretty.
Sandy Winnefeld:
How about the controls in the cockpit, though? I mean obviously you’ve got some kind of navigation and you’ve got manual or automatic gear shifts. Are there any other things, like in the highest end truck, what’s it like for the driver on the instrument panel?
Joshua Hogue:
My experience with the trucks that Hogan drives is we’re automatics, which most major carriers are running. But every once in a while you’ll see manual transmissions, which go from a 10 speed to a 13 to an 18. I’ve never done a 13 or an 18, but I’ve driven a 10 speed. Our trucks, our Internationals, actually have a massaging seat for the driver and the passenger.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Very cool.
Joshua Hogue:
Lumbar supports actually inflate and deflate to kind of massage your back as you’re driving. Because you’re sitting there so long.
Sandy Winnefeld:
How connected are you? Obviously you’re going to have a cell phone and that sort of thing, but do you have anything reported to a control center like airplanes? And I don’t necessarily mean to monitor your driving, but modern airplanes have sensors that feed information to maintenance depots when parts are wearing out. How connected are your tractors?
Joshua Hogue:
In these newer tractors, being in the computer age, there are all kinds of sensors and computers on pretty much everything. The transmission and the engine are all run by computer. So we have what they call the ELD, electronic logging device, which keeps track of our logs for us. And through that system our company can go in and see what the truck is doing. If there’s a miscommunication or if there’s a problem going on, they can see it before we do. On the ELD, it also has our navigation through the logs, so it’ll tell us a route that it wants us to take. Based on your weight and all that, it'll take you through the roads that you’re allowed to be on for your weight class, height, and length restrictions.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Do you have to take the route it suggests? Because sometimes when I do those map apps, they’re really not helpful. You’ve probably found that.
Joshua Hogue:
No. I started driving the truck before there was navigation in the trucks in 2007. So I’m used to using an atlas. I look at their route, what the computer wants me to take, and then I look at my atlas and look for the roads that say I can be on them or not. And then I’ll route myself. Sometimes I’m faster, sometimes I’m slower. It just all depends on how many two-lane roads you’re going to be on versus interstates.
Sandy Winnefeld:
So it’s kind of an advisory service that you apply judgment to, which I think is pretty cool.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
That’s the smart way to do it. Is there any new technology coming down the road, so to speak, for the trucks that you’re looking forward to?
Joshua Hogue:
I haven't heard anything specific, but we have lane departure, just like how all these new cars have it. It’ll tell us if we’re getting too close to the line, and it actually makes a sound on that side of the cab so it tells us what side we’re getting too close to. Then we have the automatic braking system. If we get too close to the vehicle in front, it automatically starts applying the brakes for us.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
That could be helpful and annoying.
Joshua Hogue:
It is, but to me, it's real helpful because you never know what’s going to happen. You’ve got to have that safety cushion. A lot of people in four-wheelers, that’s what we call them, the cars, they either get in front of us and then slow down. But we have to have that safety cushion because we can’t stop like them.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I have a joke I tell about when I’m in Florida. You’re in a sandwich between somebody who’s really old, has their blinker on, and is going really slow, and you have a Florida man in a pickup truck two inches away from your bumper. You probably live that all the time.
Joshua Hogue:
Oh, yeah. See it every day.
Sandy Winnefeld:
We’re really grateful to Hogan for letting us have access to you. And one of the things they wanted to make sure that we knew is that you carry a lot of different types of loads. Can you give us a sense for all the different loads that you carry and if you know what percentage of logistics cargo in the US is shipped by trucks?
Joshua Hogue:
The freight that I know that I haul personally is dry van freight, which is your everyday things from groceries to bulk chemicals. You just never know. It just depends on if it needs to be on a dry trailer, which a dry van is just a regular box van. Then I’ve hauled for some of our dedicated accounts that have refrigerated units, which is your produce and stuff like that, your ice creams, and your meats. I’ve done livestock, where we haul live animals. I’ve done flatbeds and hauled containers that hold your household stuff like when you move from Pods. I’ve hauled those before. The only thing I’ve not really gotten into is tankers. I’ve done cars. We have a car division that’s a lot of fun to me. The livestock is also a lot of fun.
Sandy Winnefeld:
And I would imagine that there are certain subtle differences between those types of loads and how you manage the truck. Obviously, you’ve got to be careful with the livestock not to throw them around too much, I would imagine.
Joshua Hogue:
Yes, sir.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Okay. Very cool.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
I don’t think people realize how much gets shipped around the country via trucks. Do you have any idea of the percentage?
Joshua Hogue:
I’m thinking, if I remember right, it’s right around 71% to 75%.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Yeah, I thought so.
Joshua Hogue:
But I mean, roughly, I would say 99.9% of the freight is touched by trucks. Because even if it’s shipped on rail or on a train, it still has to be loaded into a truck and taken to a warehouse.
Sandy Winnefeld:
The last tactical mile.
Joshua Hogue:
Yeah.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
You guys are a critical part of the logistical infrastructure of the country. I don’t think people realize it when they see you on the roads out there. So I wanted to make sure we got that point across.
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Dr. Sandra Magnus:
As Sandy mentioned, I’ve been driving in a camper van. I’m in New Zealand at the moment. I really enjoyed it because it was cozy. So I suspect I would really like your accommodations in your Class 8 trucks. Do you guys have toilets and induction stoves and running water? How fancy do those living quarters get? Are they really just a bunk bed?
Joshua Hogue:
It all depends on the company you work for. Smaller mom and pop trucking companies, some of them have those super sleepers which have a shower in them, a washer and dryer, a stove, cooktops, and a king size bed. And then most carriers have double bunks which are two twin beds, a mini-fridge, not classified as a dorm fridge, but a little bit smaller, and then microwaves.
Sandy Winnefeld:
So you have two beds. Does that mean one person can be asleep while somebody else is driving? Is that allowed?
Joshua Hogue:
Yes, that is called team driving. So one person will drive a 12 hour shift from, let's say, midnight to noon. And then at noon, the guy that was asleep will get in, do his pre-trip on the truck, and then start driving from noon to midnight. That keeps the truck moving 24 hours a day.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
That’s intense.
Sandy Winnefeld:
How many hours can you drive generally? I know it depends on terrain and the load and all that, but how many hours can you drive on one load of fuel?
Joshua Hogue:
It all depends on your truck. I fill up every other day and I might put 80 to 100 gallons in. Some trucks get five miles to a gallon, like the older trucks. The newer trucks can get 8 to 10 miles per gallon. It just depends on how heavy or how light you are.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
We had rules when we were on the space station about how many hours we were allowed to work and how many hours we had to rest. Do you guys have rules like that?
Joshua Hogue:
We have what they call an 11/14 rule, and that’s federal. In a 14 hour day, you’re allowed to drive 11 hours anywhere in between that time. You know, say you start at 7:00 in the morning, you have to be shut down by 9:00 at night, and anytime in between there you’re allowed to drive.
Sandy Winnefeld:
And then how long do you have to rest before you can drive again?
Joshua Hogue:
10 hours.
Sandy Winnefeld:
10 hours?
Joshua Hogue:
You have to be down for 10 hours.
Sandy Winnefeld:
How about other rules that our listeners might not be aware of that are oriented towards safety and that sort of thing? Any particular things you’ve got to adhere to?
Joshua Hogue:
Mainly it’s the 11 hour and 14 hour DOT rules. If you start a minute early from your 10 hour break, you’re in violation. The other rules are that if there’s a light out on the truck, you can actually get pulled over and get a ticket just for a marker light being out. You see cars driving around missing headlights and all that; we’re not allowed to do that. The tickets vary. A seatbelt ticket in a car is what, maybe 10 or 15 bucks? In a semi truck, it’s 300.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
So you guys have a whole other standard.
Joshua Hogue:
Oh, yes.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I guess the implications of something going wrong with a big truck are a little more serious than with a car, but pretty amazing.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
You guys are on a schedule. And I was curious about how much control you have over managing that schedule. Like, what kind of margin do they put in there for traffic and weather? Because you have to kind of work around impromptu gifts from the universe as you’re driving across the country. So how much room do you have to manage that?
Joshua Hogue:
It all depends on how hard you want to run yourself. The company, Hogan, actually does their loads at 55 miles an hour. Most companies will do that, running 50 to 55 miles an hour. That gives you extra play time. If you run 60 miles an hour, you want to run a safe speed. So at 60 miles an hour, if you’re averaging that, you’ll have a couple hours to play with. It just depends on how hard you want to run and push yourself.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
But the 55 is sort of an average? Because if you’re going around a loop, say around Atlanta, you’re going to be doing 20 for an hour.
Joshua Hogue:
Yeah, traffic does eat into it a lot. The good thing is if we’re having issues, if there’s a major accident or something, all we have to do is call into dispatch and say, "Hey, this is what’s going on." We send them a message on the ELD system and they will relay it to the customer. So, I mean, you try to adhere to the timeline, but sometimes you can’t.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Kind of walk us through, if you would, a typical run. I’m curious. Obviously you start by hooking up to a trailer, unless it’s already done for you. Do you usually do the same route over and over again or is every single day different? Do you have a dispatch that says, "Okay, we need to take this trailer from point A to point B and then go pick up another trailer and take it to point C"? How does that rhythm work for you?
Joshua Hogue:
It all depends on if you’re on like a dedicated account or if you’re what we call an OTR driver, which is over the road. If you’re on a dedicated account, you might get the same run and do it every day, day in and day out. On some dedicated accounts, you’ll pick up from that same location and you’ll go to different locations all over the country. Over the road, you pick up at point A, you’re going to take it to point B, then you’re going to go to point C, pick up again or deliver more freight, and then go to D or E. It just all depends.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
If you’re an over the road driver and you’re going from A to B to C to D, that could be weeks at a time. So how do you get downtime or time off to see your family? How is that built into that kind of a schedule?
Joshua Hogue:
The way I do it is I roughly go three weeks out and then go home for a few days and then start all over again. That’s how I like to do it. Some drivers will stay out for months on end and then go home for a month. If the wheels aren’t turning, you’re not making money.
Sandy Winnefeld:
That’s a pretty stark way of putting it.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
That’s a rough lifestyle, but you can control it a little bit, it sounds like, based on your cadence. I have to ask you this question: what are your favorite and least favorite states to drive through? Do you have some?
Joshua Hogue:
It depends on the time of the year. Upper Vermont and Upper New York, not New York City, but the countrysides in the wintertime are actually really pretty. Seeing the snow on the trees and all that is nice. Or going up the 101 in California, I like to drive up that. Back in the day, I used to have a route that would go up there. Being able to drive up the coast and see the ocean out your window is actually really nice.
There are cities that I don’t prefer to go to, like LA, New York City, Boston, and Fort Worth. Dallas is actually really pretty, and so is Houston, but the traffic’s horrible.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Every time I see a big truck in the middle of city traffic, my heart bleeds for them. I’m like, "Oh, my gosh, those poor people." Having to drive around all these crazy cars in this traffic is not fun.
Sandy Winnefeld:
At least having an automatic transmission might make it a tad bit easier, rather than having to shift gears constantly, which you probably had to do at the beginning of your career.
Joshua Hogue:
It’s a lot easier on the leg, I’ll say that. You aren't sitting there playing with the clutch all day long.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Oh, my gosh. So, Josh, I am currently in Colorado at 10,000 feet, and as I was driving up here, I thought of you. Can you walk us through what you have to manage going through a mountainous region? Everything from chains to going down the mountain. It probably takes quite a lot of your attention compared to, say, just a nice flat run.
Joshua Hogue:
Going up and down mountains is a challenge in its own, especially if you have to go up right now during the wintertime. Especially where you’re at in Colorado, there’s snow on the road. You have to carry snow chains and you have the minimum chain restriction. Then you have a maximum where you’ve got to put two chains on the truck and that’s it versus six. But going up is actually pretty easy. You slow down a lot depending on how heavy you are. And then, same thing when you’re going downhill. A lot of states actually put a speed limit for us, so if you weigh a certain amount, you can only go this fast. That’s why you see trucks going down the mountain doing 25 miles an hour.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I’ve watched in the wintertime, you don’t want to put on chains any more than you have to. So you’re pulling over and you’re putting on the chains, and the weather can be horrendous. I see guys out there chaining up their trucks in the worst weather. It’s got to be miserable doing that.
Joshua Hogue:
It is. But after years and a few times of doing it, you kind of get a routine on how it’s easier for you to put it on. You’ll get some of the old-school drivers that’ll actually help you if you need help. If you’ve never done it before, like my first time of doing it up in Donner Pass in California, I had no clue what I was doing. When I was sitting at a spot, a couple old drivers pulled up next to me and I strictly asked them. I was like, "Hey, can you explain this to me or can I watch you do it so I can know what I’m doing?"
Sandy Winnefeld:
And that kind of goes to the trucker ethic, right? Of helping each other and helping people in distress.
Joshua Hogue:
Some drivers, I’d say people, will help others and some won’t. You have the good and the bad with everything you do, but a lot of times you’ll get the good driver that will help you with whatever you need. Say you need help sliding your tandems at the truck stop and you’re having a problem trying to do it; some drivers will come help you. Say you’re backing into a parking spot, there are drivers that’ll get out and actually help guide you so you don’t hit another vehicle as you’re backing in.
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This podcast is about managing risk. So we have to talk about the risks and the hazards that are out there on the road. I can think of bad weather, other drivers, and animals. What do you consider some of the major hazards and risks that you have to manage as you’re driving around the country?
Joshua Hogue:
Mainly it’s cars; that’s our main risk.
Sandy Winnefeld:
It’s us.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
I believe you.
Joshua Hogue:
But I mean, there’s animals and all that. As you’re driving at night, you’ll see animals crossing the road and you’ve got to watch out for them. You’ve got to keep your eyes constantly moving through your mirrors and through the windshield of the truck to make sure that there’s no hazards on the road. Things might fall off other people’s vehicles at night and you don’t see them until you’re almost right there. You’ve got to keep your eyes moving so you see everything at all times.
Sandy Winnefeld:
So just for my personal benefit, what is the most annoying thing that you see the four-wheelers doing that really gets your spine tingling?
Joshua Hogue:
Not paying attention to what they’re doing. I’ve seen people in cars reading books, playing on their phone, or eating a bowl of cereal with no hands on the steering wheel. I mean, you see all kinds of crazy things because we sit up so much higher than you, so we see everything.
Sandy Winnefeld:
That’s amazing.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
You should write a book about that.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I don’t do any of those things, by the way, but I’ve probably done something. Do you ever have somebody try to tail you a little too closely? Sometimes you see trucks actually drafting on each other. But is that a real thing?
Joshua Hogue:
I don’t know if you get better fuel economy out of it, but millions of people think it does. It’s very unsafe because you can’t see around me. If I’ve got to hit my brakes, you’re going to go underneath me or into the back of me. They do it every day, though, so that is a big hazard right there, people tailgating us.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Now, when somebody does that to me, I tend to turn on my windshield washers as kind of a signal to them. I know I’ve affected them when I see them turning their windshield wipers on because I got to them. It’s kind of a little signal. That’s a little harder to do for you. Do you have anything that you can do to kind of shed these people who are tailgating you?
Joshua Hogue:
Well, the way I was trained was: if someone’s tailgating you, slow down.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Yeah, that’s what I do.
Joshua Hogue:
Make them want to go around.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Yeah, that’s probably the safest thing to do.
Joshua Hogue:
You know, if I slow down and they don’t want to go past, then if I’m coming up on an off-ramp, I’ll put my blinker on and slow down even more, making it look like I’m getting off the highway just to try to push them to go around me, just to give me that safe space.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
What would be the one request that you would have from four-wheel drivers to keep in mind when they’re around trucks on the highway?
Joshua Hogue:
Just to remember that there are blind spots on your car, but the blind spots are even bigger on a semi truck. If I can’t see you in my mirrors and you can’t see me, then I can’t see you. And it takes me a lot longer to slow down and come to a complete stop than it does your car.
Sandy Winnefeld:
So how do you handle the sort of mental challenge of knowing that you’re driving an 80,000 pound truck at highway speeds and one mistake could have enormous consequences? You’ve got to stay alert, right? How do you handle all that?
Joshua Hogue:
The best you can do is just keep your eyes moving and try to keep that safety cushion all around you at all times. It doesn’t always happen, but you try your best. You know, if someone gets in front of you and they’re going just barely in front of you, you just try to slow down even more. It makes other people mad because you slow down, but I’d rather be safe than sorry.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Absolutely. Do you think there’s one particular policy change or maybe rule change that would reduce risk for drivers? And what would it be?
Joshua Hogue:
If I had my way to make a law, it would be that before you got your driver’s license, you have to do at least a couple weeks riding in a truck. Just so you know what the truck has to go through. Anybody who gets a driver’s license should have to ride in a semi truck for, say, a day, just so they can see what it takes for us to stop and to see how stressful it is for us when you want to cut us off just to hit that exit.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Yeah. People should put themselves in your shoes and get a different perspective. I like that.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I recently saw a report about hijackings. Is that much of a problem or was that sort of sensationalized? Do you think much about that?
Joshua Hogue:
I don’t really think too much about being hijacked. I mean, there are bad areas to go to. West Memphis I can think of right off the top of my head is not a very safe place, as are some truck stops. But you just go to the places that you know are safe. You can get hijacked anywhere you go, but you don’t really hear too much about it as a driver.
Sandy Winnefeld:
And there are a lot of tracking systems on your trailers and that sort of thing.
Joshua Hogue:
Yeah, there are GPS trackers on the truck and GPS trackers on the trailers. You’d have to be pretty smart to be able to disable it to be able to steal it.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Yeah. It sounds like it’s more of a high-tech crime now than a low-tech crime because you have to be able to deal with the technology.
Joshua Hogue:
Yeah, to me it’s harder to steal an 80 foot truck than it is a little bitty Honda Civic.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Do you have a story from your time on the road that can capture some of the risk that most non-drivers might never think about? Can you think of a specific example from your experience?
Joshua Hogue:
I can’t think of a specific one. We take risks every day just trying to be safe. You see cars cut you off because they can’t miss that exit. Even though you’re 200 feet away from the exit, they want to go across three or four lanes of traffic just to hit it. That’s what I see every day.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
I call those people two-dimensional thinkers because they don’t realize they can go past the exit, get off, turn around, and come back rather than create an unsafe situation by swerving.
Joshua Hogue:
It might ruin their day by adding five minutes onto their day, but I know it’d be safer.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Yeah, they’d ruin their day a lot more if they got run over by an 80,000 pound truck.
Joshua Hogue:
The problem would be that if I hit them, it’s my fault even though they did something dumb.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Yeah, because you're behind. You can't win that one. I'm curious, you talked about driving for 11 hours. I’ve done that once or twice and it gets kind of old, especially if it’s flat terrain. So how do you go about keeping yourself occupied other than paying really close attention to what you’re doing? Do you have a TV going in the corner or is there music? What do you like to do to kind of keep yourself energized?
Joshua Hogue:
Sirius XM radio. I listen to music while I’m driving. I’ve got my Bluetooth headset, so there are other drivers that you kind of talk to. But you’ve got to keep it to a minimum because of safety. So I talk for a little bit and then go back to listening to music for a while. A TV in the background is kind of unsafe.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I was kind of hoping you’d say, "I listen to The Adrenaline Zone all the way across the country," but maybe on future trips.
Joshua Hogue:
Yeah, on future trips I definitely will tune into the podcast.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Well, we’ve had some great guests, including a driver named Josef Newgarden who won the Indy 500 a couple of times. He was really fun to listen to.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
I was just curious, going back to driving as a career: what would you tell a new driver? Talking maybe about the financial risk, the work-life balance, and equipment costs. What advice would you give to a young person who is attracted to this profession?
Joshua Hogue:
The advice I could give them is: if you want to buy a truck, you’ve got to remember that if you want to become an owner-operator, you’re going to spend a lot of money. It’ll show you made a lot of money at the end of the year, but if the wheels aren’t turning, you don’t make any money. As a company driver, what I’ve done for my entire career is I’ve made a name for myself. I ran hard. Pretty much, you scratch my back, I scratch your back. I try to do my best to get the load there on time or early. There’s weather and traffic accidents, things that are out of my control. But as long as you work hard, trucking is a good reward. It gets lonely, but you’ve just got to weigh your home time versus work time.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Two questions: are you paid by the mile or the hour?
Joshua Hogue:
It depends on what you’re doing. Certain accounts at Hogan get paid by the mile. Then you have your local drivers who are paid actually hourly.
Sandy Winnefeld:
The other question is, Hogan’s got a lot of drivers, right? It’s a big company. I think you’re one of the more experienced drivers. Do you find yourself in a position to mentor other drivers and kind of share experiences with them, or are you just out there driving so much that you don’t have much time to spend around your fellow truckers?
Joshua Hogue:
Every once in a while I’ll see a couple other Hogan drivers, but mainly I’m always on the road. I like to drive nights because there’s not a lot of traffic at night. Pretty much when everybody else is driving during the day, I’m asleep. If I see other drivers, I’ll talk to them on the radio or at the truck stop, say hi, and introduce myself. We try to help each other out.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Is it pretty common that people prefer to drive at night?
Joshua Hogue:
That’s my preference. I couldn’t speak for every driver. I know refrigerated freight mainly works at night, especially out in California. The farm workers are out there picking produce during the day, and they load it in the afternoon. It just all depends on the time of day that you can get loaded.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
How much is the trend towards self-driving cars going to affect your job, do you think?
Joshua Hogue:
The self-driving semi trucks, like the Tesla truck and all that, I don’t know how much that’s going to affect us. It’s probably going to affect it to a certain extent, but I don’t see it actually coming online for quite a few more years. They’re still in the testing phase. There’s some trucks out there in the middle of nowhere in Texas where they’re pretty much all automated, but they still have a driver because you never know when that computer is going to go down and someone is going to have to be behind that wheel.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Or you get some random car person doing something unpredictable that the sensors and the control system can’t react to fast enough.
Joshua Hogue:
I do agree with that.
Sandy Winnefeld:
We’re getting close to the end of our time. I did want to ask you: what would you say is the one thing that most Americans don’t really understand about truckers and trucking that they probably should?
Joshua Hogue:
Something that people don’t really understand about the trucker is the dedication that we put into making sure you get the goods that you want to buy. We’re out here missing birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays just so the freight gets to where it needs to be.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Something we take for granted. I remember taking a Russian pilot who had defected to an Albertsons grocery store to show him American culture. He thought we just made this up for him. I told him to get in the car and tell me where to drive. We went to another Albertsons 20 miles away and he walked in and saw it and went, "Oh, you guys really do have this, don’t you?" It is a huge responsibility of the trucker to make that happen.
Joshua Hogue:
The saying that I’ve always heard is: if you bought it, a truck brought it.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
Oh, yeah. That’s a good line to leave with our listeners. They should think a little bit more carefully when they’re on the road driving around trucks and be a little more appreciative.
Sandy Winnefeld:
Josh, really appreciate you being with us today. Thanks for what you do, keeping those wheels turning and keeping logistics strong in our country. And thanks for being safe. Maybe we’ll see you out there in one of those big blue Hogan trucks one day. I’ll wave at you and you can honk at me.
Joshua Hogue:
Hope so. I’ll give you the big horn.
Sandy Winnefeld:
I promise to give you a wide margin.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
We’ll be the ones driving safely around you.
Joshua Hogue:
That’s right. Thank you for giving me the opportunity and inviting me onto your podcast. This has actually been a lot of fun.
Dr. Sandra Magnus:
I’ve really enjoyed it. I could probably chat with you for another 20 or 30 minutes. That was professional trucker Joshua Hogue. I’m Sandra Magnus.
Sandy Winnefeld:
And I’m Sandy Winnefeld. Thanks again to Culligan for sponsoring this episode. Get exceptional water for exceptional performance. Learn more at culligan.com. Join us next time for another episode of The Adrenaline Zone.